Arséne Wenger, You Stand Accused – The Sequel
ByFollowing on from the first part of the case brought against Arséne Wenger about the “dismantling” of the Invincibles, the second part is a discussion of his “youth project”.
Arséne Wenger – The Gambler
Arsenal Manager, Arséne Wenger
So, again we find another phrase which is becoming synonymous with Arséne Wenger and his stewardship of Arsenal. Arsenal currently boast the youngest squad in the league I believe, and I hear this used as a double edged criticism in several circles, both from fans and press coverage.
The principal concerns for those who seem less than convinced that this is a fitting way to run a club of Arsenal’s stature and ambition are that;
- The club should not be used as a pseudo crèche for developing footballers learning the difficulties of playing in the Premiership (as well as the other competitions) the hard way, whilst the fans suffer
- Younger players are incapable, or cannot be expected to achieve success at such a tender age as they lack experience and also the familiarity with the sensation of winning trophies.
What can be in no doubt is that the club has placed a dramatic emphasis on youth development over the last few years; this is not a particularly new concept under Wenger’s tenure.
However, whilst the stadium move has been the major focus of the clubs resources, along with the associated property deals, it has been necessary to place a keener focus on the players coming through the ranks.
Whether or not it can be considered an experiment to have taken this approach doesn’t follow however.
Is it that Wenger always intended to run the club in this manner, with such supposed frugality, with such stubborn zeal for his puritanical vision of his youth players playing Wengerball? These casual accusations levelled at him for taking such risks with our club, I don’t feel take into consideration several factors behind the scenes, and require context.
For starters, I don’t feel that this method of management is any more experimental than the “Galacticos” of a few years ago, or even the current set at Real Madrid. Or than what is going on at Manchester City, with the accumulation of a layered team of mercenaries (Adebayor & Robinho for example) and nearly men (Bellamy, Santa Cruz, Wright Phillips)?
Spending big is no guarantee of trophies, any more than a change of manager is; it is not a good way of generating a team ethic and a sense of solidarity in the squad. also I don’t feel that it allows for fans to really connect with the players and create a rapport the way we have with van Persie or even Eboue for instance.
In my opinion, the worst consequence of assembling a squad in this fashion is how it continuously damages otherwise excellent, or promising talent. So many decent players wasted years at Chelsea during the initial phase of arrivals. Wright-Phillips again, Kezman, Shevchenko, Glen Johnson and Crespo spring to mind, all otherwise good players.
I don’t think footballers of this quality can suddenly become bad players, just perhaps ones with no confidence. Or perhaps ones with bad attitudes.
One argument that has value is that many of these players who have much to achieve in football, have signed contracts which far outweighs their contribution to the club as yet. This needs to be considered against the backdrop of modern football. It does grate that a player of 21 can play a handful of games, and not seem to produce much by the way of effort or even skill sometimes, can be so extensively rewarded.
However, the club is producing swathe after swathe of talent, not all of these players will be good enough for the Arsenal, but it is important that the club has first refusal on the players who are of the standard and that it profits from those who do not make the transition to the first team squad for whatever reason.
I believe we have made handsome fees for several players from the academy in the last few seasons, Arsenal have ex-youth players at most of the clubs in the Premier League; Chelsea, Bolton, Birmingham, Aston Villa, Tottenham for example, as well as those in the Championship, and on loan. I would be very interested to see how many Arsenal players will play top level football over the next few years compared with those of other clubs academies.
So the contracts awarded serve two purposes; to keep the talent we have from being tempted to ply their trade for massive wages elsewhere, to ensure that a transfer value is retained in the youngsters who eventually leave.
A further point to consider is that Wenger HAS spent money in this period, since the stadium move Tomás Rosicky, Eduardo, Aaron Ramsey, Samir Nasri, Bacary Sagna, Andrey Arshavin & Thomas Vermaelen have all arrived for a combined value of around the £55 million mark. Granted we have sold, but these aren’t exactly the spending habits of a penny pinching old scrooge.
What they definitely are not, is comparable with the expenditure levels of the clubs immediately surrounding us. And there aren’t many, if any, examples of a club as well run, and secure as ours amongst them. Quite the contrary as we all know.
The lack of experience is a more complicated issue. Sol Campbell’s reintroduction to the squad has certainly been of enormous benefit. But then, hasn’t Silvestre won a trophy or two? The Chelsea team that won the league in 2005 wasn’t entirely peppered with seasoned winners. I think this comes more down to character rather than experience.
As another example, I feel that Vermaelen is a considerably more combative, competitive and a much more positive influence on the team than Arshavin. At the moment, what sort of influence does someone like Arshavin have on a player like Diaby for instance? Is his experience and age of benefit to a player like Diaby who is capable of wonderful displays of midfield play and attacking flair, or his is minimalist approach a poor example to be setting?
I think it’s hard to say conclusively that bringing in experienced players is unquestionably what this team needs. All our major performances are young; Cesc, Song & van Persie are our key figures, along with perhaps Vermaelen now and Clichy. All are young players, all with some experience now, all with very bright futures still ahead of them and all will be key to the success of the team over the coming years.
What people are really asking for is players with a winning mentality, and this is not age dependant. The most conclusive example of this is displayed in the efforts of players such as Lionel Messi, and probably more dramatically, Wayne Rooney. He didn’t learn to be so driven from anyone; he is just simply that sort of player.
Really, the “youth project” has to be seen as a side effect of the stadium move rather than something that was always the intention. It is often used as an accusation that Arsene is playing games with our club, risking nothing himself. But he isn’t risking the clubs future at all, and that is the key counter argument to this point.
Ivan Gazidis said it himself when meeting the Arsenal Supporters Trust (AST) last Monday. He and Le Boss could be heroes for a year or two, but we wouldn’t be thanking them in 4, 5 years time. By that he means that this would jeopardise all the hard work that has been done to keep the club stable.
The real risk is that Arséne Wenger has stood up for something, shown an ideal to be followed, and in an environment like the Premier League or the Champions league, that is an achievement in itself.
The Premier League is scattered with pragmatism, clubs trying desperately to cling onto top flight football at any cost, characteristics that I think Arséne might refer to as “negative aspirations” – wanting to avoid something, rather than wanting to attain something.
Perhaps in some cases, this is completely valid. By no means am I suggesting that all clubs must try to play attacking football no matter what the cost and risk all that they have worked to establish. What I find frustrating is watching teams play with no ambition, with no intention to create, only to smother.
Liverpool are currently the most depressing example of this, a club that has spent so much money, and has players of genuine class reduced to being on the receiving end of a huge “HOOF!”, every time one of their players launches a ball speculatively forward.
This, I think, is the really wonderful thing about the “youth project”. There is now a football philosophy built into every level of football at Arsenal, and it is of high tempo, technically adept, creative play.
A style of football that has been in the ascendancy for some time (both at club and international level), regardless of whether or not it is winning football, because winning is a side effect of doing something well. This applies to anything we attempt in our lives, from something as simple as cooking a meal to what we do at work, music, film, and all sports.
Arsenal’s “project youth” benefits the club in so many ways; it will soon benefit our national side immensely, which has been exposed horribly on several occasions against the likes of Spain or Brazil. I know I’m a better footballer now for watching Arsenal play.
I don’t know who it was, but there was a historian some years ago asked about the impact of the French revolution to which he replied “it’s too early to tell”. I think this is the case here, I don’t think Wenger is playing his own egotistical games with the club, and when success comes in the next year, 5 years, 20 years it will be in no small part because of the vision of Arséne Wenger.
Join us in the next instalment of this series when we demystify the accusation that Arséne Wenger has lost the plot.
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Tue 13th September 2011; 19:45, Dortmund
I just wanted to share the fact I have been blocked by Arsenal Action for daring to suggest that they were doom mongering pessimists that take great joy when every little thing goes wrong with the Gunners.
Its such hypocrisy when they are ranting that AW and AFC dont listen to the fans.
I wont miss their blog at all and I suggest its worth missing for every true gooner.
wow I didn’t realise that Arsenal Action block people! that proves that they aren’t as democratic as they think they are.
Anyhow good piece, I am pro Arsene, without shame, and the AA guys are school kids who have no understanding of real finance. Not many managers could keep us in the top 4 with all the stadium building that we have experienced.
Barndoor Bendtner, my comments were deleted from that blog after telling that the speculation contradicted everything that Wenger had said and criticizing a negative blog that base the comments on a loose uncritical foundation that is neither constructive, reflected or balanced rather based on a clean emotional unreflected critique of the Arsenal Project.
Mr. Millen, refreshing to read your blog. It is actually a first for me I believe. A reflected perspective that I feel is even more refreshing because I agree with it and tired of the black or white world of the doom mongers: a lot of them do not believe there is a variety of perspectives like the rainbow, but clear emotional perspective of black and white.
I do not believe we need five years to see clear results though. I believe Mannone, Szcezny and Fabianski will need a time frame of three years. Otherwise I believe Bendtner, Walcott, Diaby, Denilson, Gibbs, Lansbury, Wilshere and Emmanuel-Thomas will be top class far before a time frame of five years and rather much sooner; plus the likes of Afobe, Aneke and Eastmond will be ready within that time. Song and Cesc is definitely already top class. Seeing the influence of Campbell I do believe in leaders to make that final push, I rather believe such an attitude can come through confidence and leadership as developments of personalities are as nations; they cant be compared in growth rate as they dont develop in the same direction. A couple of leaders like Campbell can make a huge difference
Nice read, all those wasting precious minutes of their life reading legrove & arsenalaction should give this blog a try.
First, £55m you quoted is over a 4 year period which works out as £14m per season on average. Not the type of outlay if you want to win the big trophies. In the past ManU and Ajax have won with young squads but you cannot do that in this era with the mega spendings of the likes of Chelsea.
Second, lets look at Wenger’s past records which is admirable (and the one I prefer him to follow – not the Wenger of the last 5 years). Wenger brought in 12 players when he won his first double (Petit, Overmars, Vieira and Anelka were the better ones). When he won his second double, he brought in 9 players over 2 seasons (Campbell, Pires, Edu, Lauren VBronkhurst were the better ones). He had already proved in the past that you cannot win anything with the youth. yet over the past 3 seasons he has been deluding himself that Arsenal are about to win it, only to come up short.
No doubt Wenger and your article stands accused.
Obviously, a well balanced mature squad in their prime should be able to produce optimum results. Young squads – unless they all Fabregas types- will not be be able to beat a similar quality mature side until they are 28/9 or even 30. The genius that is AW has built a maturing squad ( with endless quality youngsters follwing on) which -even though it plays the purest and fairest football in the land- can compete with mega spending clubs. It is miracle that he can do this whilst maintaining a transfer SURPLUS!!
That prudence now means Arsenal can afford to start adding the best emerging squad of players in the world. The fun is watching how much debt the other clubs have to ship to stay ahead. Soon there won’t be enough tea in China to pay for the players needed to beat us. Relax- sit back and enjoy watching a genius at work. And lets have a bit more faith-eh? We should have won the Prem this year- as Nasri said- but for injuries. Next year better, I think!!
joe obviously as Wenger was building HIS team in those seasons you state it was obvious that he would acquire more players.
Did you not read the article it’s main point is the fact that Wenger is doing all this with the financial burden of building a fantastic new stadium. He has done this in a relatively safe way, not wanting to jeporadize the team that you supposedly support.
What a great article. I have actually mentioned on another blog that somebody should write this subject post.
“Spending big is no guarantee of trophies, any more than a change of manager is; it is not a good way of generating a team ethic and a sense of solidarity in the squad. also I don’t feel that it allows for fans to really connect with the players and create a rapport the way we have with van Persie or even Eboue for instance. ”
This point about us being more connected with the players is fantastic, we get to watch them develop.
Have to say though that not many players that leave arsenal ever do managed to play at the standard they do here. That’s homegrown players included. Other than that I 100% agree. on most points.
I for one find wenger Innocent on ruining or indeed playing with this club.
What he has managed with what he has been given is nothing short of a miracle.
Financially hopefully our dark days are behind us. If the moronic, ungrateful, blinded doomers get there way and Wenger is shown the door in the next few seasons, whoever comes in will be taking charge of the most gelled, future-proof dynamic club in history. It would be easy to do well with what Wenger would leave behind. I wonder if the said manager would be willing to take the role, knowing the facts of what resources Wenger has had five years ago.
Joe Millen well done.
Great blog, keep the quality coming thick and fast Darius.
Overall I am in favour of Arsene. If you look at his net spend over the past 5 seasons it is a miracle we have managed to remain in the top 4.
However, I do have an issue with the same mistakes happening season after season and nothing being addressed.
Pat Rice is simply a yes man. We have no tactical nouse whatsoever. The way we played Barcelona was a joke compared to the job Mourinho and Inter did on Barca. Secondly our young players have been given far too much money without earning it. How the hell can Jay-Emmanuel Thomas have a McLaren F1 when he hasn’t even played anything meaningful for the first team. Senderos’ attitude stank and there are many who don’t seem to give a sh*t whether we win, lose or draw e.g. Denilson, Walcott, Diaby, Bendtner. That isn’t just exclusive to the young players though, see Gallas, Silvestre and Rosicky. Wenger has forged a culture that not winning is acceptable. In the book Patriot reign, a story of the New England Patriots, it tells of the culture Bill Billicheck inherited and quickly changed in order to achieve unrivalled success:
“The Patriots lacked leadership and knew nothing of meritocracy. Theirs was a culture of entitlement and preferential treatment”.
The above quote sums up Arsenal and the squad Arsene has built. We have talent but we need to get to the route cause. Get rid of the Gallas’ and bring in more Vermaelen’s. If Diaby cannot be bothered to run and let runners ghost behind him then drop him and/or sell him. The balance is wrong. If we address the work rate and self accountability the sky is the limit for this team. If not, our future will be exactly the same as the last 5 years. I’m tired of seeing the re-run every year
Sorry my first point was to joe71
Good article, in the main good comments.
The problem with the doomers is that they still expect AW to pick the Petits & Vieiras out of a hat. The game has moved on & the clubs like Newcastle & the Spuds, who have by & large done what these cretins want are still way behind us.
We simply have not had the kind of money to pay for the real game changers, with prices grossly inflated by Abramovic, Real Madrid & other financial dopers.
Our new great players had to be produced young & played young.
AW has created a team with an average age of 22/23 that has been good enough to finish a very credible 3rd. Tinkering is always needed for freshness but it will be another 4/5 years before they peak with still more time to stay there. We already have the ability to win things on the way to the peak too.
It is an element of the fan base that need to be accused, I think.
Dan
On what do you base your facts that Pat Rice is a yes man & the players don’t care about defeats?
In the main all the players have put in a hell of a shift considering the injuries we have had. What happened at the end of the season was born from disappointment & a fall in focus as the big prizes had gone.
All our eventual winners have also been losers, no more so than the 71 double side.
So Dan how do you come to know that Senderos’s attitude stinks?
Why do you single out Rosicky and Gallas as being LAZY?
You have made some assumptions there,
Sounds to me you’d be an ideal candidate of a fan to be sent to supporting Chelsea.
Well said Frank, you beat me to it.
Everyone blames Arsene but the truth is, if our tight arsed board dont give arsene the money then he cant buy, its as simple as that.He cant say that because they are his employers and he had to accept this situation in return for the stadium being built.The board have been taking the profits to get the debt down on the stadium so that when they do eventually sell the club, there will be all profit left for them to share, so they are heavily over paying the debt so more money is left to them.We need to get the board out and let someone in who will invest in the club as this board is done and will not invest in the club to the level that is needed.Id love to see the russian and yank team up to take over together bringing in 2 billionaires and David Dein back in the process.There is no need to wait or get anyones permission as they would own over half the club thus forcing the board to sell the rest of the shares to them.I have this info as my good mate works within the club and is privy to this information but we think this has to get out to stop Arsene copping the flak as he cant do anything about it and is buying the best youngsters as that is all he can afford knowing his team cant really compete but at least will leave a talented young side capable of top 4 finishes and maybe one day a real challenge.
Joe71, I hadn’t included the more low key signings made in this period of younger players, as well as those promoted to the first team squad from the academy. So I think the numbers brought in probably match those, although perhaps the names were not as seemingly high profile. Certainly, it is worth bearing in mind that there were some players who were less than successful (Stepanovs, Vivas, Jeffers, Wright) during that time. Bu then, do we really want such high numbers coming in each summer?
I agree that it is harder to compete with the likes of Chelsea when they are spending so prodigiously, however, we have finished above so many teams who have spent more than us, that I think Chelsea is the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps that will change with time, but with “financial doping” increasingly high on the list for FIFA to address, I think that it will become increasingly difficult for Chelsea to continue along these lines. Also, it rasies the broader question of whether this is the correct way for footabll to remain competitive & attractive to fans? Should the onus be on Arsenal to revise their strategy, or on football as a sport to provide organisational structures wherby clubs are run sensibly and fairly?
I wonder if you are in favour of a sole owner bank rolling the club, rather than self sustainability?
Bear in mind that it would now seem that Man Utd are a selling club. That Liverpool are at the start of a decline, that Chelsea are going to require massive investment in the next two seasons to replace key players (Carvalho, Terry, Lampard, Ballack, Drogba, Anelka are all the wrong side of 30 now, and will start to find that age & injuries have a larger bearing on their careers).
In terms of experience, I think also it is worth remembering the times when youth was of dramatic benefit to the Arsenal; AC Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid? Plus the benefit that the core of this team are growing together at the club, which generates a strong dressing room, especially through the shared experiences such as St Andrews & subsequently at Stoke this year.
With regards to Diaby, I don’t think he would have played nearly as many games this season had Ramsey not had his leg smashed to pieces at a time when he was really starting to look like a great player.
I think that we are just about to start seeing the fruits of the clubs hard work, unfortunately this has come at the back end of a frustrating couple of years on the pitch (only to some extent in my opinion, I know there are plenty of people who strongly disagree with that). So there are fans who have a compounded sense of disillusionment because of this, but it seems a shame to give up at the very point when we will start to see the true benefits of this work.
dan – bendtner not giving a s***? are you joking? have you not seen how hard he tries in every single game. honestly! some people
So now the board, that took Arsenal from being a top English club but at a level lower than Man U or Liverpool, to one of the most elite clubs in World football with a magnificent new state of the art stadium to boot, lack ambition for the club.
I would remind you that if DD had had his way we would be playing on that crap Wembley pitch, with debts as large as Man U, who’s romance with the billionaire may have won some trophies but has left it with a perilous future.
The club is being run as it always has been in my time. It is the club I identify with. Time may be running out but I think most of us like it this way. Those with a trophies at any cost attitude have simply chosen the wrong club to support.
Another great point Joe
If the core of this team remain together for another 4 years, can you imagine
Almunia (i’m a fan)
Clichy
Sagna
Djourou
Song
Cesc
Diaby
Deni
Nasri
RvP
Bendtner
all of these players will be in there peak age at that time and will have had atleast 6 years together. That will be one solid team that should play well together. It might be rose tinted glasses, that i’m happy to wear but there isn’t a bad player in that list. What an awesome backbone to a team that would be.
Arsenal is a phenomenon.
Great post and great comments you all.
Perhaps just a simple reminder of why we love this club so much…
And ELS, what’s with calling Flint Frank…LOL! It’s not the first time – I guess it’s that McLintock thing….
Joe (the author) – you do mention an interesting point about the expectation that Arsenal has to correct it’s culture and style to survive in an artificial economy within the game. I do agree that this is an unreasonable and short sighted view as the business of football is living on borrowed time and the laws of economics has started to correct the market.
Portsmouth, Hull, Liverpool and even Man United are about to become live case studies of how not to run your club with money you don’t have.
I tend to think that the key thing driving the doomers is more to do with the humiliation they face from supporters of other teams who don’t hesitate to rub it in our faces every time we fall short.
Haha oops sorry Frank erm Flint. That’s not the first time i’ve done that.
That alright Earl !!
yo flint, i would like to say to you that this is not that board any more with the same mentality as before,this is a board that WANTS to sell the club nevermind what they are saying TODAY, they have not put a penny of their own money in for years now because of revenue of new ground and Arsene,s brilliance in the transfer market. The old board would give us some revenue usually £20-25m if needed a bit more if not then less than that figure. this sum with Arsene,s skills in themarket is enough for us to challenge if its there yearly like it used to, but because the board like i have said want now to sell in the not too distant future are not giving Arsene the cash and for some time now, so your argument about selling out to the billionaires does not hold up cos thats what the board intends to do because they have realised they cant/wont keep up with your chelsea,s man. u etc but this is Arsenal f.c who have tasted success and we want more and they cant give it or no longer feel they can to keep up.Oh and you really have to be beyond stupid if you dont realise are success with DD to the nothing we have achieved without him, He was Arsene,s RIGHT HAND MAN and voice to the board in getting the better players and better wages for us to compete as well as all negotiating in getting top players at cheaper prices and wages and getting players contracts signed up early so the flamini gallas senario,s rarly ever happened to us, they either signed up or went for decent monies,Oh and least you forget was the man who brought stan the man to the club who was willing not only to split all bills with the board but give Arsene £20m of his own money every season on top of what the board would give for a place on the board and they not only refused with the famous “we dont need his kind”quote and had DD KICKED OFF the board for standing with his conviction that this was the way forward. They then shat themselves when the russian came in and started buying up shares in the club and went running to the yank begging forgiveness and giving stan a place on the board any way with no monies asked of him but the promise they would sell to him when they were ready. What hypocrites!!! DD was right! Get this past it board out now and put in place someone with vision and the right way to take us forward with some money , not stupid amounts,but enough to do a good job for the club and give Arsene a chance to compete within the structure of the club with some investment a new club can afford, and that is all we ask.
Mike.
Absolutely no need to turn to insults to make your point. Let’s respect each other and not call each other stupid even if we don’t agree with respective opinions.
It’s OK to have a different opinion about issues and by sharing, we all learn.
You point out David Dein’s role in tying up loose ends with player contracts and stuff that a right hand man supposedly does. I would suggest that Arsenal is more than well equipped to do this auxiliary work on behalf of Wenger.
In case you didn’t know, Ivan Gazidis is possibly one of the world’s most experienced practitioners when it comes to managing player transfers and contracts. While deputy commissioner at the MLS for over a decade, most if not all the player transfers crossed his desk at one point or another, notwithstanding the fact that he is a lawyer by trade. That is a hell of a lot of experience and with due respect to the guy, he didn’t walk into the job from the cotton fields.
Also, Arsenal has a specific individual at Highbury House whose primary responsibility is to oversee and manage the shall we say ‘paper heavy’ side of player transfers and contracts. The suggestion that Wenger spends precious time on actioning the transfer decisions he has made because David Dein is no longer available is so far off the mark.
I would also suggest to you that share-holders have no constitutional or divine responsibility to continuously pump in their own money (as opposed to money their company organically generates) to prop up a club in an artificial market.
The misguided expectation that ownership means money is available is one of the reasons football is in the quagmire it is in.
“yo flint, i would like to say to you that this is not that board any more with the same mentality as before,this is a board that WANTS to sell the club nevermind what they are saying TODAY, they have not put a penny of their own money in for years now because of revenue of new ground and Arsene,s brilliance in the transfer market.”
I may be wrong but I don’t think any directors have used their own money to do anything but purchase shares for the last 90 odd years, although they may have acted as guarantors at certain times.
“The old board would give us some revenue usually £20-25m if needed a bit more if not then less than that figure.”
When was that then? Again I don’t recall any net spend approaching that magnitude.
“the board like i have said want now to sell in the not too distant future are not giving Arsene the cash and for some time now, so your argument about selling out to the billionaires does not hold up cos thats what the board intends to do because they have realised they cant/wont keep up with your chelsea,s man. u etc but this is Arsenal f.c who have tasted success and we want more and they cant give it or no longer feel they can to keep up.”
As none of the directors are spring chickens I don’t doubt that the club will have new owners/owner in the not too distant future. Ivan has recently stated that a multiple ownership is preferable with the club to be run on a proper business like footing. The directors invested much time & energy into the new stadium. They take no dividend & whether it is for their own benefit or not, it is certainly more than good for the club to reduce its debts, so that the full revenues from the stadium are available sooner, rather than paying interest.
“Oh and you really have to be beyond stupid if you dont realise are success with DD to the nothing we have achieved without him, He was Arsene,s RIGHT HAND MAN and voice to the board in getting the better players and better wages for us to compete as well as all negotiating in getting top players at cheaper prices and wages and getting players contracts signed up early so the flamini galas senario,s rarly ever happened to us, they either signed up or went for decent monies,”
We have much to thank DD but it turned out that his vision for taking the club forward was not the right one, in my opinion. I don’t know if you have go to the games or not, or if you have been to Wembley but it is my belief that if AFC had been taken to Wembley the result would have been absolutely disastrous. It is a bastard of a place to get to & from. For most of the fan base. The pitch is abysmal so the combination of the 2 would send the crowds plummeting. The club would have been a captive to the bunch of wankers that are the FA. & would have lost its identity entirely, with inevitable financial consequences.
Perhaps you can explain Edu, Wiltord & Campbell amongst others going for free during DD’s reign? There may have been good reasons as there were for those leaving post DD.
“Oh and least you forget was the man who brought stan the man to the club who was willing not only to split all bills with the board but give Arsene £20m of his own money every season on top of what the board would give for a place on the board and they not only refused with the famous “we dont need his kind”quote and had DD KICKED OFF the board for standing with his conviction that this was the way forward. They then shat themselves when the russian came in and started buying up shares in the club and went running to the yank begging forgiveness and giving stan a place on the board any way with no monies asked of him but the promise they would sell to him when they were ready. “
That’s your version of recent history. I am not sure Stan would be offering to pay the bills or give £20m per season. I would be pretty sure that whatever Stan or certainly Usmanov put in they will want back big time. In the end DD sorted himself out by selling to Usmanov, wanting his cake & eating it. It appears to me that he does love the club but he certainly loves his own interests more.
“What hypocrites!!! DD was right! Get this past it board out now and put in place someone with vision and the right way to take us forward with some money , not stupid amounts,but enough to do a good job for the club and give Arsene a chance to compete within the structure of the club with some investment a new club can afford, and that is all we ask.”
It may all come to pass but putting shed loads of money into the club destroys its structure & its identity, being entirely dependant on the whims of someone with no real love for the club. And that is all you ask???
The Arsenal Board picked Wenger not just for his football acumen but also about his financial prowess. He was asked to build a team that would compete in not just the PL but also in CL while constructing the Emirates. He did this with one hand tied behind his back. We have an Arsenal to support in the future because we did not go where a lot of clubs have gone which is borrow and spend, borrow and spend. one good example is Poorsmouth, FA cup now and Administration next. What would happent to that colorfur Pompey supporter with all his tattooos and big hat that we see so often in their games? Will he be the only living proof that such a club exist if they close down? I am happy that in the future my kids will have an Arsenal to support because we have been wise in a time of very unrealistic fueled by greed market. We have a good grasp of the future of Arsenal the trophies will come. As the move goes…”Build it and they will come” – Arsene is building that future
haha touche Flint.
Mike, it is obvious that you really care about the club, but I think you really need to listen to Darius & Flint’s counter commnets above, and perhaps spend some time looking through some websites (in particular the Arsenal Supporters Trust perhaps) to allay some of your concerns, and perhaps even furnish you with a fresher and more informed viewpoint.
There is NO evidence to suggest that the board want to seel the club. Why didn’t they sell to Usmanov?
There is NO evidence to suggest that Stan Kroenke wants to pump his own money into the club to finance transfer dealings. He could do this anyway. Silent Stan is a long term investor, not a sugar daddy.
David Dein did a lot of great things for the Arsenal, not least bringing Arsene to the club, but his decision making towards the end of his time was very poor, and he became embrolied in a certain amount of short termist, impatient and frankly tabloid dealings, with little consideration for the bigger picture. Much like the observations of a section of Arsenal fans at the moment.
The board members take NO money out of the club, nor have they ever put in any of their own cash. Arsenal simply hasn’t been, isn’t and hopefully won’t ever be run like that.
Ivan Gazidis is a shrewd, considered and deeply professional man, who has a remarkable understanding of the clubs values and stature. He is not the kind of man who will jepardise the reputation or security of the club becasue a section of fans want to win the FA Cup so they can shout down other fans. His, Arsene’s and the club’s vision for how Arsenal will establish success is long term.
Arsenal fans who feel that the club must win a trophy at any cost need to carefully consider the potential repercussions, these are often the the same fans who they they feel the roots of the club have gone.
It is clear from some responses how broadly polarised opinion is, the fact that a discussion is taking place on this site, rather than barring criticism is a great credit.
Aside from that, i really agree with Els’ point about the team reaching a peak together, and the list of players he has doesn’t include; Vermaelen, Gibbs Ramsey, Wilshire or Theo Walcott as well as so many other players who will start making inroads in the near future. Els thank you so much for your comments! And also Flint McFrankleton of course……
Flint also touches on this well, and we must remember that once this team does start winning trophies, they will have not just a couple of years together, but another 8 or 9 before they reach the twilight of their careers.
This enables continuity, and also the much needed overlap with generations.
I think I’m going to go and have a look at Arsenal Action & LeGrove now……I just can’t help myself……..
Good work Joe.
The list I provided only touched on the amount of home-grown talent we have.
I tried to stick to established first teamers that have been around for over 3 years.
So yeah I missed out Walcott.
For any wilting Arsenal supporter have a good luck have a look through Bouldy and Brady’s boys. Without a shadow of a doubt we have the greatest youth players in this country if not the world.
Slightly unrelated but for me it holds more excitment to see which Reserves / Youth players will be promoted to the first team than reading any tittle tattle in red top rags. Afobe anybody, he IS going to be the saviour of english football (maybe a tad over the top but there you go).
I honestly think that Wengers hand will be forced into more signings than need be this summer. He may finally give to the pressure. A fantastic bit of business for me would be to instead of a risky Central defence signing, give Senderos another chance (better the devil you know) and make Vermaelen and Song our first choice partnership. With Sendy, Johan, Sol as back up and the promotion of Bartley or Nordtviet we would be good to go. Then in Songs departure from midfield you could play Eastmond or make a signing here, which is a slightly more forgiving position then Central Defence.
I’m finished rambling now I just get excited.
Come on you gunners!
Very good follow up to your 1st article, Joe.
It is however sad that a handful of “Kill-Joys”, who lack vision & knowledge, and are still hell bent on souring everything for everybody, have found their way here as well. But not to worry. I largely ignore them these days. They are not even worth arguing with.
So people what are your thought’s on cesc? Will he or does he really want to leave?
I feel like I may be kidding myself that he doesn’t want to go. Would it be a good move to make him stay.
If he left I would wish him the best, but hope that IG makes it his career ambition to mug barcelona and laporta.
And if cesc left who would fill those boots, nobody? Nasri, Diaby, Rosicky could all do well when on form and play well there. But for me seeing as though he’s had a moan about his position why not give Arshavin the role.
- – - – - – - – -Almunia
Sagna – Gallas – Verm – Clichy
- – - – Deni – - – - – Song
Bendtner – - Arsh – - Chamahk
- – - – - – - – - RVP
I tell you what though if cesc leaves they NEED to throw some of that money gallas’s way! It would be a hell if they both left.
And finally would people want to see Yaya come this way in the deal?
Els
If he really does want to go then there is no point keeping him. even for another season because you don’t tend to get the same player for that season. Brady, PV4, TH14 prove that point although Ronaldo at MU could provide a counter argument.
He is however under contract & Cesc may be disappointed if Barca don’t rate him highly enough to pay the full market value, which I guess must be £50m+.
Should he go then AW has his most crucial transfer season ever. I certainly would not throw more money at Gallas, he either wants to play for us or not. I feel we need to add more of a physical presence both at CB & CM, to adjust our game just a little to be more defensively sound. A Fletcher type maybe to just do the simple patrolling jobs, in front of the defence. I don’t fancy Yaya from what I have seen & heard of him. A big ‘keeper- yes but if one cannot be found I think Almunia is as good as most.
I would not have been surprised to see AA leave but certainly not if Cesc does go because as you say he could add that creativity that would be lost. I would worry about his defensive duties in that role but that is Cesc’s weakness too & that has been part of our vulnerability.
So for me I hope Cesc stays but we add a bit of physicality. We may get some surprise revelations through the ranks too. We also have players who will step up big time with even more responsibility.